Serious Compacts is a photography blog with a focus on advanced compact cameras. Our site features news, testing, and discussion of the remarkable compact tools available to photographers. We also highlight some of the outstanding work being done with this gear.
Saturday, April 12, 2008
What Makes A Compact Camera Serious?
This content has been moved to the new SeriousCompacts.com.
Of course, photographers looking for a 'serious compact' don't have to buy new cameras, and the list swells up again when you include older models like the Canon G6, Olympus C-5050/5060, Fuji F810 etc.
And, once you start including older models, there's no reason to not include film cameras like the gorgeous Fuji Klasse, the Hexar AF, Olympus XA or even more modest cameras like the Ricoh 500G...
Oh, and the Fuji F100fd only offers Program AE mode.
Thanks for spotting that: it looks like the Fuji F100fd doesn't include control over aperture and shutter after all. That's a pity.
Changing the criteria when defining a 'serious compact' will affect which models are on your list of possible cameras. Of course you can include older models. In some cases though, things like screen quality, image processing and responsiveness may have improved significantly in the newer models.
Hi Björn, it's interesting to go through these sorts of decision making analyses. Of course each photographer looking for a "serious" compact will have his or her own criteria. There are some criteria, such as RAW mode, cut the list precipitously. Another example of such a feature is that of a built-in optical viewfinder, which is something Michael Reichmann, for example, weighs strongly. With that requirement, your list drops to one (G9), and adding wide range to 28mm equivalent drops it to zero! Others don't require RAW for serious work, and that opens the field up quite a bit, as you have pointed out.
I think it's also worth mentioning that some of the most serious compacts, especially for B&W work, are film compacts. I have in mind the limited production Fujifilm Klasse W and S, which come in at around 270 grams. Regards, Amin
There's one more camera which isn't that far from your requirement list: Olympus SP570.
- TTL Hot-shoe + wireless flash - Manual control of exposure and focus - RAW - 2.7" LCD + EVF - 26-520mm lens - 365 gram (excluding 4AA batteries).
Looks pretty serious to me, though maybe a 20x zoom is pushing it. The smaller-than-average sensor is likely to hurt image quality too (at least at anything higher than base ISO).
Still, after a very long period of boring cameras, Olympus have finally stepped up and delivered a promising super-zoom.
Prog, you're right. Canon and Nikon have both kept RAW out of their super zooms. This can be explained as a way to avoid competition with DSLRs. Chuck Westfall has, in the past, commented that RAW is unhelpful or adds little with small sensors. I don't buy that argument, and it's good to see Olympus and Panasonic keeping RAW in their compact superzooms.
Joost Burger, that is very true. Am I right that none of those are current production models? Either way, they represent a group of very capable and affordable buys for photographers who use compacts and appreciate RAW.
RAW is such a rare feature these days. At some point, we should have a poll to see what percentage of our readership considers RAW absolutely necessary in a compact.
That would be an interesting discussion and/or poll, Amin. Personally, I tended to use RAW on my compacts only under critical conditions: for example, when I was forced to use anything above base ISO, long exposures and for scenes with high contrast. In short, for the type of conditions that challenge small sensors. I think having RAW is a pretty essential feature in a compact.
Joost, your point is a very good one. It would be interesting to know more about how to implement the Canon CHDK hack. Perhaps it's a way of achieving a reasonably priced yet capable serious compact?
I don't see the Fuji F700 in the list, it has full manual controls, manual focus, flash output adjustment, RAW to card in 3 seconds, small, lightweight, and inexpensive.
Marky, yes including older models there are others that would make the list, including the F700. I believe that Björn was including only models in current production. Regards, Amin
Hi, there is a interesting discussion concerning raw versus jpg over at Ken Rockwell's site:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm
My view is that having raw output available as an additional option is quite desirable. Even better though would be if all cameras would produce optimal jpg out of the box (with critical parameters such as internal curves adjustable).
Compare this with film: not everybody likes to develop at home ;)
What about CHDK? That gives some seriousness to my little SD1100: RAW, manual exposure and focus control, and many more... I'll join your Flickr group and show you some of my pics...
Of course, photographers looking for a 'serious compact' don't have to buy new cameras, and the list swells up again when you include older models like the Canon G6, Olympus C-5050/5060, Fuji F810 etc.
ReplyDeleteAnd, once you start including older models, there's no reason to not include film cameras like the gorgeous Fuji Klasse, the Hexar AF, Olympus XA or even more modest cameras like the Ricoh 500G...
Oh, and the Fuji F100fd only offers Program AE mode.
Thanks for spotting that: it looks like the Fuji F100fd doesn't include control over aperture and shutter after all. That's a pity.
ReplyDeleteChanging the criteria when defining a 'serious compact' will affect which models are on your list of possible cameras. Of course you can include older models. In some cases though, things like screen quality, image processing and responsiveness may have improved significantly in the newer models.
Hi Björn, it's interesting to go through these sorts of decision making analyses. Of course each photographer looking for a "serious" compact will have his or her own criteria. There are some criteria, such as RAW mode, cut the list precipitously. Another example of such a feature is that of a built-in optical viewfinder, which is something Michael Reichmann, for example, weighs strongly. With that requirement, your list drops to one (G9), and adding wide range to 28mm equivalent drops it to zero! Others don't require RAW for serious work, and that opens the field up quite a bit, as you have pointed out.
ReplyDeleteI think it's also worth mentioning that some of the most serious compacts, especially for B&W work, are film compacts. I have in mind the limited production Fujifilm Klasse W and S, which come in at around 270 grams. Regards, Amin
There's one more camera which isn't that far from your requirement list: Olympus SP570.
ReplyDelete- TTL Hot-shoe + wireless flash
- Manual control of exposure and focus
- RAW
- 2.7" LCD + EVF
- 26-520mm lens
- 365 gram (excluding 4AA batteries).
Looks pretty serious to me, though maybe a 20x zoom is pushing it. The smaller-than-average sensor is likely to hurt image quality too (at least at anything higher than base ISO).
Still, after a very long period of boring cameras, Olympus have finally stepped up and delivered a promising super-zoom.
Prog.
If you use the CHDK hack, a lot of other canons can be considered
ReplyDeleteProg, you're right. Canon and Nikon have both kept RAW out of their super zooms. This can be explained as a way to avoid competition with DSLRs. Chuck Westfall has, in the past, commented that RAW is unhelpful or adds little with small sensors. I don't buy that argument, and it's good to see Olympus and Panasonic keeping RAW in their compact superzooms.
ReplyDeleteJoost Burger, that is very true. Am I right that none of those are current production models? Either way, they represent a group of very capable and affordable buys for photographers who use compacts and appreciate RAW.
RAW is such a rare feature these days. At some point, we should have a poll to see what percentage of our readership considers RAW absolutely necessary in a compact.
That would be an interesting discussion and/or poll, Amin. Personally, I tended to use RAW on my compacts only under critical conditions: for example, when I was forced to use anything above base ISO, long exposures and for scenes with high contrast. In short, for the type of conditions that challenge small sensors. I think having RAW is a pretty essential feature in a compact.
ReplyDeleteJoost, your point is a very good one. It would be interesting to know more about how to implement the Canon CHDK hack. Perhaps it's a way of achieving a reasonably priced yet capable serious compact?
I don't see the Fuji F700 in the list, it has full manual controls, manual focus, flash output adjustment, RAW to card in 3 seconds, small, lightweight, and inexpensive.
ReplyDeleteMarky, yes including older models there are others that would make the list, including the F700. I believe that Björn was including only models in current production. Regards, Amin
ReplyDeleteHi, there is a interesting discussion concerning raw versus jpg over at Ken Rockwell's site:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/raw.htm
My view is that having raw output available as an additional option is quite desirable. Even better though would be if all cameras would produce optimal jpg out of the box (with critical parameters such as internal curves adjustable).
Compare this with film: not everybody likes to develop at
home ;)
Cheers!
What about CHDK? That gives some seriousness to my little SD1100: RAW, manual exposure and focus control, and many more... I'll join your Flickr group and show you some of my pics...
ReplyDeleteI forgot to say that my username is cristiano007. Here's a link to my gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cristiano007/
ReplyDelete