Article about the future shake-out of the camera market. Pentax and Olympus are endangered species.
"Of course currently the great white hope is the big-sensor compact market, including the Micro Four Thirds platform. The event of speedy on-sensor autofocus and new high-rez screens and electronic viewfinders may give us compact cameras with professional capabilities. And this may make DSLR cameras much less relevant to many photographers. Especially serious enthusiasts, because for them a small-sensor camera might not be good enough, but they still care about bulk and weight. And who knows what amazing cameras we may see in this area in the future."
And later in the article:
...actually, thinking about it, I think the Micro Four Thirds idea may be flawed. When I want a serious and flexible camera, my Nikon D90 is compact enough. And when I want a much smaller camera, I really don't care if it has exchangeable lenses. If I want something really portable, I'm not likely to bulk it up with extra lenses. So I think a fixed-lens (zoom or not) big-sensor compact is a better idea.
Future of compacts
Tuesday, November 11, 2008
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Comments by IntenseDebate
Posting anonymously.
Future of compacts
2008-11-11T12:31:00-05:00
Eolake Stobblehouse
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ian · 856 weeks ago
arinel · 856 weeks ago
web · 856 weeks ago
I was thinking about the Oly M43 just the other day and kind of came to the same conclusion. I think I'd rather have a G10-ish body, maybe a hair smaller/thinner with a larger sensor.
Andrew · 856 weeks ago
Underneath · 856 weeks ago
BTW, if Sigma is dying, they have a funny way of showing it. They just bought Foveon.
Wolfieps3737 · 856 weeks ago
Somebody needs to make up their mind!
But then maybe it isn't the magical APS sensor size so it can't be "serious" like a C or N - people are always saying Olympus doesn't know what it's doing and somehow they just keep innovating and forcing the big-boys to follow their tune: how embarassing!
Eolake 33p · 856 weeks ago
No, that was me, not Thom. (Though he hinted something similar.) The answer is size.
Of course if you can make the lens exchangeable without any significant price or size hit, then I'm all in!
Dave C · 856 weeks ago
I have just added to my collection of old film cameras a Pentax auto 110 SLR, for younger readers this was a SLR with intercahngble lens based on the Kodak 110 cartridge film (a smaller version of the instamatic cartridge) What's amazing is how small and light this camera is and how good the focusing screen is. So, as electronics are getting smaller and use less power why can't a 110 sized digital camera be made? it would make the G1 M4/3 look like tanks.
There is one problem though, if the camera is very small how do you fit in a large LCD screen, answer, you don't! I broke LCD screen on my Canon Sureshot and have been using it only with the optical viewfinder, sure I can't access the menus but in a way it's no different than a film camera now.
Eolake 33p · 856 weeks ago
As for exchangeable lenses on a really pocket-sized camera like that, I think that would only appeal to a small subset of buyers. It'd be very cool, and I'd probably buy one, but it'd be a bit of a curiosity.
Eolake 33p · 856 weeks ago
I think I used to get an auto-email when replies appeared to comments on this site, what happened to that?
Eolake 33p · 856 weeks ago
Underneath · 856 weeks ago
Pentax is a different story. I like the K series DSLRs, but other than that, the user-oriented innovation we've come to love from Pentax just isn't there. Great camera company, but this is such a tough climate.
Underneath · 856 weeks ago
zhongxiang · 856 weeks ago
Why not having a smaller sensor but low pixels.. say 6MP??? then u might have small lens, compact with low noise (similar to having big sensor)... then call this a micro DLSR..
Timothy Bates · 856 weeks ago
Ted Johnson · 856 weeks ago
I have been waiting for a digital equivalent of that fine camera. Maybe the Pannie G1 or the future Olympus M43 is the answer. A small interchangeable camera has a place, as does a good fixed lens compact. RE: the latter, the Sigma DP2 is interesting. I'd certainly own both types of camera if they were available.
amin 67p · 856 weeks ago
There's no reason why a m43 camera should function differently than a fixed lens big sensor compact. You could take a small 35mm equivalent lens (if such were available), put it on a m43 camera, and pretend that it's fixed. Perhaps at some point you might decide that you want to switch to a 50mm or 3x zoom fixed lens, big sensor compact for a day, a week, or a month. No problem - switch the lens and pretend it's fixed again. When you pay good money for a high quality lens, I don't see any reason to keep getting rid of the lens to upgrade the sensor. Sensor technology is evolving rapidly, but optics are not.
Jim in Denver · 855 weeks ago
The Canon G10 is about the right size physically. The controls are nice. The viewfinder is miserable, but that's to be expected. (Also, in a couple of years I surmise that EVF technology will be more than acceptable by most serious users.)
But no mater how good it may be, it's still a 1/1.7" sensor. (7.6mm W by 5.7mm H, giving an area of 43mm2) M4/3 is a significantly bigger sensor, being (obviously) a 4/3" (18mm W by 13.5mm H, giving an area of 243mm2, or about 5.5 times bigger than the G10) Although when compared to APS and FF sensors, the 4/3" is somewhat noisy, it is still whole orders of magnitude better than any compact.
M4/3 gives the first real chance at a camera system with the following:
Point-and-shoot camera size
--Isn't this the whole point?
A sensor big enough for real resolution and low noise properties
--Yes, APS or FF would be great, and might happen in the future. But 4/3" is more than enough to keep me happy!
Interchangeable PRIME lenses.
--Think about this for a second. There will never be a mass-market compact with a prime lens. M4/3 will likely have many.
The ability to carry another lens.
--Something like the Olympus 40-150 kit lens) would be so very easy to bring along, just toss it into your other pocket!
It should also be noted that Thom's forecast of the demise of some manufacturers is heavily biased on his viewpoint. Which are almost all biased to the DSLR. He seems to forget that the DSLR market is something like 7% of the total. So perhaps said manufacturers may be forced out of the DSLR business, they will most likely produce compacts for the foreseeable future.
Underneath · 855 weeks ago
Jerome · 855 weeks ago
If a person is going to produce quality images (and I don’t just mean on a technical level, but on a conceptual and aesthetic one, as well) then the camera has to be up to the job and not get in the way. Of course it is possible to make wonderful photos with a cardboard shoebox that has a pinhole in one end of it, nevertheless, at this point I prefer computerized convenience, but not at the expense of compromising my intent.
Okay, I’m being a hard critic. You make your choices and do your thing and if a shoebox can work, so can the current cameras. It’s too bad, though, to have to accept something that’s “all right, but . . .”
My ideas require a really little camera now, but some of my most successful photographs were done (years ago) with a Deardorff 8”x10” camera that occupied two large and heavy suitcases with all of its components, not including a very robust tripod. I hauled that gear on several 200+ mile canoe trips through the Canadian wilderness and enjoyed every minute of it, however, times change and my objectives have, too. Heavy encumbrances don’t suit my needs now, and that includes any sort of bulky camera, including DSLR’s. You readers all know that I am part of a growing market, but the manufacturers have decisively not yet caught up with that market.
I applaud the energy and consideration that all your comments represent. Without enthusiastic websites like Serious Compacts (that camera manufacturers no doubt pay attention to), mass market camera offerings would certainly fall short. There will always be compromises, but right now we need a great leap forward.
Oliver · 855 weeks ago
Dave C · 855 weeks ago
G10: to big and expensive with a ridiculously small zoom control lever.
P6000: under specked GPS, battery has to be charged in the camera and poor optical viewfinder. Shame as it's almost what I want in a small camera.
LX3: Great lens but shame about the lens cap on a string and no optical viewfinder.
You can guess what I would like to see:
G10 viewfinder on a P6000 with the LX3 lens!